Interview with Glen Taylor
This January Glen Taylor is retiring from Wycliffe College and the Toronto School of Theology after 33 years of teaching Old Testament studies but intends to keep teaching abroad, especially in The Gambia. He talks with Sue Careless about the importance of the Old Testament and about his recent realignment with the Anglican Network in Canada.
TAP: You teach students, some of whom hope to become parish priests, how to preach and teach the Old Testament. Do you find there is a reluctance on their part to study the OT, with the exception of the Psalms? Isn’t their preference for the New Testament, which seems easier to grasp and not as culturally foreign, at least for North Americans?
GT: Yes! I was shocked as a new Anglican to note their strong preference for the NT and especially the Gospels. In many Anglican circles there’s an unwritten rule that the sermon must be from one of the Gospels. I countered this by saying tongue-in-cheek: “Of course, the Gospel of John, the Gospel of Isaiah, the Gospel of Genesis, etc.” Even when it comes to the Psalms there is sometimes resistance; one Anglican student told me another Anglican professor told him Anglicans don’t preach from the Psalms!
TAP: How do you overcome this reluctance?
GT: I try to counter this Marcionite heresy by addressing the problems many people have with the OT. (See my article on “How Can the Wrathful God of the Old Testament Be Reconciled with the Gracious Lord of the New Testament?” in Guide for the Christian Perplexed.) The OT is two-thirds of the canon, it was Jesus’ Bible, and of course no church council has assigned it a status that is in any way inferior to the NT. I try to model relevant edifying expository preaching from the OT and often refer my students to Elizabeth Achtemeier’s introductory essay in her book Preaching the OT called “Why the OT is necessary for the Church,” which is an inspiring tour de force.
TAP: Don’t we ignore the OT at our own spiritual peril? After all, Nazi Germany did not want any OT taught in European seminaries.
GT: Good point. For example, on the issue of covenanted same-sex relations among Christians, I hear Christians say Jesus didn’t say anything about this (which is wrong in light of his references to porneia), but this implies a dissociation between Jesus and the OT that is completely untenable. (Take for example the Gospel of John in which Jesus identifies the words and will of the Father with his own.)
TAP: As seminaries include more pastoral and counselling courses, biblical language studies are often no longer compulsory. Is that the case at Wycliffe?
GT: Yes, since the 1990s though I’d say they are now also cutting back on counselling courses due to increased liability issues and increased specialization and professionalism among counsellors. Wycliffe offers first- and second-year courses in both Greek and Hebrew and encourages students to study biblical languages, though the curriculum schedule isn’t especially amenable. I believe knowledge of these languages is vital, but recognize that, for whatever reasons, it now seems too difficult for some. Since the language requirement has been dropped, I have strongly pushed for making my course, “Accessing Greek and Hebrew without Knowing These Languages,” mandatory.
TAP: Why is it important for a parish priest to study the Bible in its original languages?
GT: Reading the Bible in English vs the original languages is like watching TV in black and white vs colour. In the NT, there aren’t many crucial differences in our basic understanding, but there are some. There are, however, a lot of nuances that get missed. And most Christians would be shocked to know how many crucial differences there are in meaning that depend on how one interprets the wording and phraseology of the Hebrew in the OT (I’d say easily over a hundred). At least with my course on accessing biblical languages, students can look up the Hebrew and Greek word underlying the debate and read up on the differences in meaning, even if they can’t adjudicate between them. When confronted by significantly different interpretations of the Bible reflected in English translations, parishioners rightly expect a priest to break the impasse by telling them what it says in the original language. I fear most of our graduates, though given a few hours of instruction on looking up words in Greek or Hebrew in a Bible introduction course, will not be able to do this.
TAP: You have studied over a dozen ancient middle eastern languages. Is biblical Hebrew much harder than NT Greek and are both harder than Aramaic?
GT: The first foreign language you study is the most difficult because it requires you to know English grammar at a level that is no longer taught. That said, I’d say they are about even; Hebrew has more disappearing letters and bears no tangible relation to English whereas Greek requires learning more grammatical forms but has cognates (for example, the Greek word gunē, “woman,” is related to our word gynecologist). And, given the similarity of one Semitic language to another, knowing Hebrew is a big step towards knowing another, especially Aramaic.
TAP: Surely learning biblical languages is much easier today with advanced technology than when you first studied?
GT: Yes! I cried when I first saw a cursor hover over a Hebrew word and automatically identify its many grammatical features. When I began studying Hebrew in the mid 1970s it could take me up to forty-five minutes just to identify what the Hebrew word was. And now that so much grammatical information is accessible, one could make a case for requiring only a “cheater” course like the course I teach. Waiving language requirements nowadays is the same as waiving a math course because calculators exist. You have the answer, but not any framework for understanding.
TAP: Which English Bible translations would you recommend for accuracy of their OT translation?
GT: If accuracy be understood as word-for-word correspondence between Hebrew and English, the New American Standard Bible is by far the best. The NASB follows the wording of the Hebrew woodenly and is thus good for careful personal Bible study but is ill suited for public reading, where clarity and flow are important. If accuracy be understood as equivalency of meaning, the choice is more difficult; among the NRSV, ESV, NIV, etc., one translation will get a particular passage right at one time and not at another. An absolute gem of an OT version still not widely known among Christians is the JPS (Jewish Publication Society) Version. It ranks alongside the versions just mentioned, but differs in offering Christians a remarkably fresh read. The JPSV owes nothing to the tradition that goes back to the King James (Authorized) Version, belonging rather to a pedigree of older good Jewish translations.
TAP: Is there a Bible Story book that you would recommend for younger children and one for older children that treats the OT well?
GT: Because most Bible stories are stories about the Bible and not the Bible itself, the spin of the story typically differs from that of the Bible. Take the nativity story from Luke, for example. In renditions for children there is often an inn-keeper or a donkey that has a name. What’s wrong with that? Well, by altering even slightly the details of the story, the story as the Bible tells it is altered and along with it, so is the meaning that the Bible conveys in its telling.
Another problem is that such stories often moralize in ways that the biblical story never intended. Take the story of the boy Jesus in the Temple in Luke 2: 41-50, for example. Children’s stories will often add a lesson like “Obey your Mom and Dad” or “Stay close to your parents and stay safe.” But the interpretation the Bible itself offers—an interpretation subtly conveyed by the way the story is told through such things as emphasis and restatement—conveys no such meaning. Certainly, there was no need on the part of Jesus to stay close to his parents in order to stay safe! (Jesus’ parents were more lost, in understanding at least, than was Jesus.) I think it is thus far better to read the Bible itself to children and then to teach the child what seemed important in light of the way the Holy Spirit chose to render the story.
Instead of a Bible story book I recommend an accurate version of the Bible translated for children. One good choice is The International Children’s Bible, translated from the original languages and aimed at about the grade-four level; it is ideal for young children as well as for a beginner’s level ESL class.
TAP: You now spend a considerable amount of your time and energy teaching in The Gambia. What first drew you there?
GT: A graduate student at Wycliffe, Steve Hewko, had established a mission house there, along with his wife Sheryl. It is a base from which Canadian Christians volunteer to do missional service in the Gambia. Steve brought me and Dr David Reed there in 2009 to showcase our teaching and content to see if local churches might welcome future visiting faculty and graduate students from Wycliffe to do the same. The answer was yes. To be honest, The Gambia Theological Institute has recently floundered because the trail of visiting faculty and grad students has mostly dried up. Yet something even more strategic and unique has flourished in its place.
TAP: You are a consultant for the new Christian Studies program at the University of The Gambia.
GT: Yes. The population of The Gambia is about 95% Muslim. To judge from Muslim-majority countries elsewhere in the world, one might expect resistance to any formal teaching of Christianity. But not in The Gambia. Thus, while visiting the country in 2010, I was approached by the University and the Anglican Archbishop, Tilewa Johnson, to help design a bachelor’s degree curriculum in Christianity to help the Christian minority understand its religion in the same way the university’s existing programme in Islamic Studies did for Muslims. After consulting with Christian scholars familiar with the African context, I soon drafted a curriculum that I hoped would be ideal for training local pastors and teachers of Christianity within the school system. The mostly Muslim senate of the university accepted the curriculum. Although it took a while for the Christian minority to catch up to what was happening and frankly to trust the university, the programme has been running since 2015 and saw its first graduating class earlier this year. Mostly local church leaders attend, many of whom have come from different countries such as Ghana or Nigeria.
I continue to be invested both personally and financially in this programme because the curriculum is contextual, allows students to remain at home with their families and home churches and costs as much for 40 students to attend as it does for one student to travel to Canada to attend seminary. I make a yearly visit to The Gambia to foster relations within the university and church communities, meet prospective students and do some teaching. And while back in Canada I do my best to raise the $1200 or so dollars it costs for each of the forty or so students’ yearly schooling. I have also taught for shorter stretches in Korea, China and Colombia.
TAP: Why were you ordained in the Diocese of Algoma, when you were teaching in Toronto?
Eighteen years ago the Bishop of Algoma, then Ron Ferris, was more theologically conservative and my most active role as a priest was in the summers in that Diocese. Besides, Toronto turned me down! Reasons given varied. I have served as a summer Associate Priest in the parish of Almaguin and the Good Shepherd, which covers South River, Emsdale, Eagle Lake and Magnetawan.
TAP: In 2000 you and your family left Little Trinity to help reinvigorate the Church of the Resurrection in Toronto under Duke Vipperman.
Yes, as a layman. Then once I was ordained, I served there as honorary assistant but stopped attending when Kevin Robertson, who was in an openly gay relationship, became area bishop.
TAP: Now you are stepping out again but leaving the ACC altogether. Why? What prompted you?
GT: This was a long time coming and was precipitated by the Diocese of Algoma permitting same-sex marriages to take place under certain conditions in its churches. In 2004 I had been a co-author of the Report of the Bishop’s Task Force on Same-Sex Unions for the Diocese of Algoma. I argued against same-sex unions and that approach was accepted by Bishop Ferris and later by his successor, Bishop Stephen Andrews. Before the recent General Synod in 2019 I wrote a letter to all the Bishops giving reasons why, as a biblical scholar, I did not think same-sex marriage was biblically sound. Then on May 26th of this year the current bishop of Algoma, Anne Germond, wrote in a pastoral letter that General Synod “had declined to make a decision” about same-sex marriage “leaving it to the bishops of each diocese to decide” when in fact General Synod had ruled (albeit by a slim majority) against same-sex marriage.
Today, too many bishops see their primary role as peacemakers, bridge-builders, not as preservers of the apostolic teaching of the Church that has been passed down from one generation to another. Instead of real leadership they take what they term a ‘pastoral’ response. No mechanic would ignore what he knows about cars and act ‘pastorally’ and allow a customer to put sugar in his gas tank because that is what the customer wanted.
TAP: What do you say to those theologically orthodox who say we can make a difference by staying within the ACC and changing it from within?
GT: I hear many people say ‘I’m not going anywhere’ and I want to say, ‘You’re going where the ACC is going.’ With some notable exceptions, the culture of the ACC at the highest level is not amenable to prioritizing orthodoxy.
TAP: What about those who say we won’t leave but will suffer and be a prophetic witness within the ACC?
GT: Yes, that is an Old Testament model but the New Testament also talks about not associating with false teachers so disassociation is also a biblical concept.
From my involvement in West Africa where there is currently a level of tolerance between Muslims and Christians, I think that tolerance could be threatened when Christians abroad condone same-sex relationships. I worry that Christians in Muslim-majority countries could face persecution and lose what privileges they have.
TAP: What about people who say, well as long as my congregation holds the line, I’m okay?
GT: The level of biblical and theological literacy is weakening in the pulpit and the pew. I’m teaching the Bible so that my students will know the difference between right and wrong and make biblically informed decisions in life and in the Church. But the glue doesn’t seem to be sticking; the secular culture is so pervasive.
TAP: Does your wife Marion, who is also an Old Testament scholar at Wycliffe, attend an ANiC parish now?
GT: No. She is remaining in the ACC. She is a church warden in our summer parish and will continue at the Rez in Toronto, while I’ll serve as an honorary assistant at Christ the King, a downtown ANiC church. It’s painful losing parish friends and as a married couple worshipping in two different churches.
TAP: Are there any other fulltime ANiC faculty members at Wycliffe?
GT: No, I’m the first. I think Wycliffe needs ANiC, and ANiC needs Wycliffe. Our student body is becoming more diluted in its orthodoxy. It’s part of the culture. If Wycliffe’s primary identity is evangelical Anglican, there is now less of a connection with the ACC because of its increasing liberalism.
TAP: Are there ANiC students at Wycliffe?
GT: There are a few and those in the Master of Divinity course do their placements in ANiC churches. (There had been a case a few years ago when an ANiC student was not placed in an ANiC church because the principal at the time, George Sumner, said that particular parish was one the ACC contested.) Wycliffe welcomes ANiC students and would support them. We place students in whatever churches align with their denomination. I really want there to be more of an ANiC presence at Wycliffe. A small part of my hope in joining ANiC is for stronger ties to be forged between ANiC and Wycliffe.
TAP: In retirement, will you spend more time abroad teaching?
GT: Yes, so long as it works with my family and I stay healthy. If grandchildren should appear, I’d want to stay closer to home. My first priority will be to ensure that teaching of Christian Religious Studies in The Gambia becomes even more of a fixed feature than it is. (The pandemic will likely bring a halt to classes being taught for the coming academic year, so the programme might need some help to reboot.)
TAP: What other projects do you have planned?
GT: I have various ideas for journal articles, which include writing on accessing biblical languages for the uninitiated, and more on the Book of Genesis and the Christology of the Psalter, something I’m especially excited about for the surprising alignment this orthodox subject matter has with current research on the Psalms.
Marion and I inherited an acreage across the road from our cottage and I have purchased a small farm tractor so some of my time will be spent digging in the dirt, not just buried in books. TAP
